Aantekeningen bij de Bijbel: Spreuken 27:17

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Spreuken 27:17

- -, B-Hebrew, [], 29 Jun 2005 - Karl W. Randolph: Since ancient times it has been known that after sharpening a steel blade with a stone or pottery, that a final few swipes with a rod of steel would make it sharper. Further, regularly using said steel rod would help keep a blade sharp. (The 'iron age' was born when the art of steel making was discovered, as iron was inferior to bronze, especially for weaponry.) Looking at Proverbs 27:17, the B- prefix is often used to signify instrumentality. While YXD could come from either YXD to be together with, or XDD to sharpen (usually by grinding), what does it mean that steel is together in steel? That does not say anything. However, it does have meaning when read as 'Steel is sharpened by steel, and (so) a man sharpens the face of his neighbor.' where human interaction is shown as a way for a person to become improved. Interaction here has helped me both in communicating and in understanding Biblical Hebrew. The choice of YXD or XDD comes down to which reading makes a message, and YXD doesn't.
- Peter Kirk: A closer look shows that there is no ambiguity in BHS. The vowels of the first occurrence are ambiguous, but the accent, on the first syllable of YAXAD, in both cases implies the adverb (originally a noun) "together", with a retracted "segholate" accent, rather than a verb, which would always be stressed on the last syllable. Also the second occurrence is vocalised with two patahs, which implies the adverb, rather than with qamats and patah as for the verb. The first occurrence has qamets and patah because the stressed patah has changed to qamets "in pause" i.e. on the major sentence accent, by a regular rule. So the Masoretic text unambiguously rules out a verb form here, and strongly suggests the adverb "together". And this makes sense if we consider the force of magnetism, which indeed unites pieces of iron in a way comparable to close friendship - a rather more appropriate image than welding, in my opinion. On the other hand, the LXX OXUNEI and PAROXUNEI "sharpens" suggests a reading as a verb form. But this could well be one of the many places where the LXX translators misunderstood the Hebrew.
- -, B-Hebrew, [], 5 jul 2005 From: Peter Kirk <peterkirk@qaya.org>
Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Iron sharpeneth iron? (Prov. 27:17)
To: Karl Randolph <kwrandolph@email.com>
Cc: b-hebrew@lists.ibiblio.org
On 04/07/2005 22:57, Karl Randolph wrote:

>Luke:
>
>I hate to throw water on you, but .....
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>The form YXD יחד could come from the following roots: XDD חדד, XDH חדה, XWD חוד, YXD יחד, it is the context that helps us decide which one. All of these roots are expressed as verbs in Tanakh.
>
>

(Note, Karl, that you cannot use this HTML notation for Hebrew characters in plain text e-mail. I don't know if you see any Hebrew characters above, but I don't.)

>YXD as a verb occures only twice (there is a third time listed in the concordance, but that is questionable) Genesis 49:6 and Isaiah 14:20. Both cases have grammatical constructs connected with the verb: in Genesis it mentions the locative sense (in their assembly) and in Isaiah the word "with". Such a grammatical construct is lacking in both uses in Proverbs 27. While that is not proof against your friend's understanding, it does weaken it.
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Karl, I don't know quite what you mean by "grammatical constructs" here. Not apparently what is usually called the construct state. In Genesis 49:6 there is a sentence with a subject KBDY, no direct object, but a locative adverbial QHLM introduced with B-. In Isaiah 14:20 the construction is similar except that the second person subject is incorporated into the verb, the locative adverbial with B- is QBWRH, and there is an additional adverbial of accompaniment )TM "with them", hence "you will not be united to a grave with them". And in Proverbs 27:17 the construction is identical in the first half verse: subject BRZL, locative adverbial BRZL again with B-; in the second half verse the subject is )Y$, but B- is omitted before the locative adverbial PNY-R(HW is introduced, presumably for stylistic reasons and perhaps because the combination BPNY usually has connotations of hostility which are inappropriate here.

So I see no reason in the grammatical construction to rule out the verb YXD here. It is the Masoretic pointing which rules it out, as I pointed out before, for the verb YXD could not have patah in the first syllable (which is stressed), implying that this is not a verb at all but the adverb YAXAD "together". But oddly I cannot find a case of YAXAD, or the similar YAXDAW, with an adverbial meaning "together with".

>The second word in the Proverb, BBRZL can either be a locative use, or instrumental. Seeing as iron, unlike an assembly, is a solid, the locative use is pretty much ruled out, ...
>

This simply doesn't follow. It is quite possible to be joined or united with a solid - as has been suggested before, by magnetism or welding, or all kinds of other means of fixing two solid objects together.

>... leaving the instrumental. If the verb has the meaning of to join, where is the instrumental in the parallelism of the second half of the proverb? ...
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Why does there have to be an instrumental? There is no instrumental in Genesis 49:6 or Isaiah 14:20.

>... An implied instrumental use is there if the meaning of sharpen is used. Again that weakens your friend?s understanding.
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>The other two verbs don?t make any sense when used in this context.
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>While I am being cautious not to claim that your friend?s understanding is ruled out, I find it weaker than when the verb to sharpen is used.
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Well, I tried to do a similar analysis for the meaning "sharpen", the verb XDD (or possibly XDH). If you are taking Proverbs 27:17 as Qal, the only other occurrence of the verb is in Habakkuk 1:8, and there is no instrumental adverbial there. The Hophal is found only at Ezekiel 21:14,15,16, and again no instrumental adverbial. These are the only occurrences, except for the doubtful Proverbs 27:17. So your proposal that this is the verb in the Proverbs verse is by your own criteria seriously weakened (but not ruled out), because it is a unique construction of XDD (or XDH) with an explicit instrument.

Perhaps the root XWD makes sense here after all, for clearly this is a riddle!
Vertaling Bijbel, Kanttekeningen SV, [], Ijzer scherpt men met ijzer; alzo scherpt een man het [38]aangezicht zijns naasten.
38. Versta, het gelaat of wezen des aanschijns, tot droefheid,
vrees, toorn enz., gesteld zijnde, hetwelk een ander naar
gelegenheid der zaak, door samenspreking opwekt, als hij met goed
onderwijs, troost en raad het hart naar behoren bestiert en
sterkt. Anders aldus: Ijzer verblijdt [dat is, maakt blinkend] het
ijzer, alzo verblijdt een man het aangezicht zijns naasten.
Peter Heavyside, Friends And Lovers - The Bridegroom And The Bride, [], ? Proverbs 27:17 places "and a man is united to faces of his friend" alongside "iron in iron is united". This placement highlights a similitude between the two expressions; the manifestation meaning of "iron in iron" is carried into "a man is united to faces of his friend". So Yahweh, his Christ and the men who are his antitype are united with the bride and the women in the ecclesias; there is unity because the similitude of the bridegroom is seen in the bride; the unity is like the closeness of Jerusalem compacted together [Ps. 122:3].